Navigating Emotional Challenges of Infertility

Speaker 1 0:00

Life by Dr Pat.

Speaker 2 0:03

Leading innovation in fertility excellence. Deep dive into reproduction with Life by Dr Pat.

Speaker 1 0:10

Overcome the emotional burden of infertility treatment.

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All right, let's jump into this deep dive. Today we're talking about IVF, okay, specifically all the stuff that nobody really wants to talk about, the emotional side of it.

Speaker 1 0:34

Right, it can be kind of a taboo topic. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 0:37

So much focuses on the science and the success rates, but what about the people going through it? What about their experiences?

Speaker 1 0:46

You've been doing some research on IVF lately. Right, I have, yeah, the science and the success rates, but what about the people going through it? What?

Speaker 2 0:49

about their experiences. You've been doing some research on IVF lately. Right, I have, yeah, and you know. It's clear that it's not just about the medical procedures, definitely not. It's a whole journey, emotionally speaking, especially when you're talking about failed cycles. Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1 0:59

Can you even imagine it's got to be?

Speaker 2 1:02

devastating. So we've got some interesting stuff to unpack today Articles, blog posts and let's get into it.

Speaker 1 1:11

Even some social media posts from this fertility specialist in Bangkok.

Speaker 2 1:13

Oh, yeah, I saw that Dr Pat. Yeah, Dr Pat. He seems like, from what I've seen online, he really gets it.

Speaker 1 1:18

He does seem to have a very empathetic approach.

Speaker 2 1:20

Yeah, and you know, one thing that really jumped out at me was this statistic from an article out of Bangkok yeah, it said that 17 percent of couples there experience infertility.

Speaker 1 1:31

Wow, that's a lot higher than I would guess.

Speaker 2 1:34

Right Like that's a significant portion of the population.

Speaker 1 1:37

It is, and you know it makes you wonder how many people are struggling with this silently.

Speaker 2 1:41

Yeah, good point, because it's not like people go around broadcasting it, you know.

Speaker 1 1:45

Right, exactly, there's still so much stigma around infertility.

Speaker 2 1:50

Which is why I think this deep dive is so important.

Speaker 1 1:52

I agree, we need to shed light on these experiences.

Speaker 2 1:55

And you know Dr Pat's perspective is really valuable here.

Speaker 1 1:58

Oh for sure he's on the front lines working with patients every day.

Speaker 2 2:02

And he's seeing firsthand the emotional toll it takes.

Speaker 1 2:05

Exactly, and you know, it's not just in Bangkok, it's everywhere. Infertility is a global issue.

Speaker 2 2:11

It is, and here's the thing that blows my mind. Okay, tell me, despite all the advancements in fertility treatments, You'd think. Success rates for IVF. They're still surprisingly low.

Speaker 1 2:23

Yeah, that's the thing.

Speaker 2 2:25

We're talking less than 50%, sometimes even lower, dependent on a whole range of factors. It's wild, I mean. All that hope, all that investment, and for what?

Speaker 1 2:33

It's got to be heartbreaking.

Speaker 2 2:34

To go through all that and still not have it work out.

Speaker 1 2:38

Absolutely, and that's where the emotional side of things really comes into play. Right, you can't just ignore the emotional impact of all of this.

Speaker 2 2:47

Like after a failed cycle, I imagine the grief must be.

Speaker 1 2:51

Intense.

Speaker 2 2:52

Intense. Yeah, I read that it's often compared to the grief of a miscarriage.

Speaker 1 2:57

That makes sense, right, it's a loss. It's the loss of a dream.

Speaker 2 3:01

A dream of a family, a child.

Speaker 1 3:03

It's a lot to process and it's not something that just disappears if a couple ends up having children later on.

Speaker 2 3:08

So even if they eventually can see through IVF or adopt, or, but can still linger. That grief is still there.

Speaker 1 3:14

Absolutely. It's important to acknowledge that and to allow yourself to grieve.

Speaker 2 3:17

Yeah, to process those feelings.

Speaker 1 3:19

And to seek support if you need it.

Speaker 2 3:21

Makes sense.

Speaker 1 3:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2 3:22

You know, and, speaking of support, I'm curious about the guys in all of this.

Speaker 1 3:27

The men.

Speaker 2 3:27

Yeah, we often hear about the woman's experience, but what about the men?

Speaker 1 3:31

Oh, they're going through it too.

Speaker 2 3:33

But how, yeah, like their experience must be so different.

Speaker 1 3:36

It is in some ways, but the emotional burden is still very real. I mean, they're not the ones going through the physical procedures, true, but research in this area is still kind of limited.

Speaker 2 3:48

Really.

Speaker 1 3:49

Yeah, but what we do know is that men they feel this deeply.

Speaker 2 3:54

I can imagine, especially if the infertility is attributed to them.

Speaker 1 3:58

Definitely that can be a really heavy weight to carry.

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Makes you realize that infertility it's a shared experience.

Speaker 1 4:04

It is and it affects both partners in profound ways.

Speaker 2 4:08

It's not just about the couple either.

Speaker 1 4:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2 4:09

You know Dr Pat talks about this in his survival guide.

Speaker 1 4:13

Oh yeah, About the ripple effects.

Speaker 2 4:14

Yeah, he says that infertility can actually strain relationships with friends and family too.

Speaker 1 4:19

It's true. Think about it.

Speaker 2 4:21

Okay.

Speaker 1 4:21

You're going through this incredibly difficult thing and then you've got well-meaning friends and family saying things that are Unintentionally hurtful. Yeah, or just not helpful. Like what? Oh you know the classic just relax and it'll happen.

Speaker 2 4:34

Yeah, that one.

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Or have you tried insert random fertility tip here.

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As if we haven't Googled everything under the sun already.

Speaker 1 4:42

Exactly. And then social gatherings they can become minefields.

Speaker 2 4:47

Oh, I bet, Especially when you're surrounded by pregnant women and babies.

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It's like a constant reminder of what you're longing for.

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And it's not like you can just avoid those situations altogether.

Speaker 1 4:56

Right. Life keeps happening, whether you're ready for it or not.

Speaker 2 5:05

So how do you even begin to cope with all of that? That's the million dollar question, isn't it? It is. And then, on top of everything else, there's the medications. Oh yeah, the medications.

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Hormones are no joke.

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They can really mess with your emotions.

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And the medications used in IVF. They can amplify everything.

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Mood swings, anxiety, even depression.

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It's a lot to handle.

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So how do you even know if it's the process itself or the meds?

Speaker 1 5:25

That's a good question, and I think it highlights why Dr Pat's advice is so valuable.

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His survival guide.

Speaker 1 5:30

Right, he's been there, he's seen it all.

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And he's offering guidance based on real world experience.

Speaker 1 5:37

Exactly. He knows what people are going through.

Speaker 2 5:39

So let's dive into his advice. What are some of the key things he emphasizes?

Speaker 1 5:44

dive into his advice. What are some of the key things he emphasizes? Well, first and foremost he talks about the importance of acknowledging your grief Like giving yourself permission to feel those emotions Exactly the sadness, the anger, the disappointment. It's all valid.

Speaker 2 5:57

And it's okay to cry.

Speaker 1 5:58

Oh, absolutely, crying can be incredibly cathartic.

Speaker 2 6:01

It's like releasing all that pent up emotion.

Speaker 1 6:03

And Dr Pat. He really stresses that there's no right or wrong way to grieve.

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So you don't have to compare yourself to others.

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Everyone processes grief differently.

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At their own pace.

Speaker 1 6:15

Exactly, there's no timeline for this.

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But he doesn't just say go feel your feelings, and that's it right?

Speaker 1 6:20

No, he goes beyond that. He also talks about the importance of seeking help.

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Like therapy.

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Therapy support groups, connecting with others who understand what you're going through.

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So you don't have to go through this alone.

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Exactly, there's strength in reaching out for support.

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And it's not a sign of weakness. No-transcript. I like that. So it's about acknowledging your grief-seeking support. And advocating for yourself oh right, he's big on that too.

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He encourages his patients to ask questions, push for more testing.

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Even consider changing clinics if they're not getting what they need.

Speaker 1 6:57

Yeah, he's all about empowering his patients.

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To take control of their journey.

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To be active participants in their care.

Speaker 2 7:04

But how do you balance that assertiveness with trusting your doctor?

Speaker 1 7:08

That's a good point. It's not about being confrontational.

Speaker 2 7:11

Okay.

Speaker 1 7:11

It's about being informed and engaged in the process.

Speaker 2 7:14

So it's about finding that sweet spot between trust and advocacy.

Speaker 1 7:18

Yeah, exactly, and you know, dr Pat also recognizes that infertility can put a lot of strain on relationships.

Speaker 2 7:24

Oh yeah for sure, all that stress and uncertainty.

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It can take a toll on even the strongest of bonds.

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So what does he suggest for couples going through this together?

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Well, he really emphasizes the importance of prioritizing the relationship.

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Even amidst all the medical stuff.

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Especially amidst all the medical stuff, it's easy to get so caught up in the appointments and procedures.

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You forget to nurture the connection with your partner.

Speaker 1 7:47

It's like IVF, becomes this third entity in the relationship.

Speaker 2 7:51

Yeah, it did feel that way.

Speaker 1 7:52

So how do you prevent that from happening?

Speaker 2 7:54

Well, dr Pat. He has some really simple but profound advice.

Speaker 1 7:59

I'm listening.

Speaker 2 7:59

He tells couples to find activities they enjoy doing together outside of the IVF journey.

Speaker 1 8:06

Like what. Give me some examples.

Speaker 2 8:08

He keeps it pretty basic Going for walks, cooking a meal together, watching a movie, anything that allows them to reconnect and de-stress.

Speaker 1 8:17

So it's about remembering that you're a couple, first and foremost.

Speaker 2 8:20

Exactly, and that your relationship is a source of strength and support.

Speaker 1 8:23

And laughter. He talks a lot about laughter.

Speaker 2 8:26

Oh yeah, he's a big believer in the power of laughter.

Speaker 1 8:28

It's like a mini vacation from all the stress.

Speaker 2 8:31

And it can really help strengthen your bond as a couple.

Speaker 1 8:34

Makes sense. So we've covered a lot of ground here.

Speaker 2 8:36

We have the emotional impact of IVF, the importance of processing grief.

Speaker 1 8:41

Seeking support, advocating for yourself. Seeking support, advocating for yourself, prioritizing your relationship.

Speaker 2 8:46

It's a lot to take in.

Speaker 1 8:47

It is, but there's so much more to explore, like those day-to-day coping strategies.

Speaker 2 8:52

Right. Dr Pat has some really interesting tips for managing stress and anxiety.

Speaker 1 8:57

Oh yeah, and some of them might surprise you.

Speaker 2 8:59

Intrigued. Let's dive into those in the next part of our deep dive.

Speaker 1 9:02

Sounds good.

Speaker 2 9:04

All right. So you said Dr Pat has some surprising advice for dealing with stress and anxiety during IVF. Yeah, when I think of IVF, relaxation isn't exactly the first thing that comes to mind.

Speaker 1 9:14

Right, it seems like the opposite of relaxing.

Speaker 2 9:16

Yeah, exactly. So what does he recommend?

Speaker 1 9:19

Well, he's a big advocate for self-care throughout the whole IVF process.

Speaker 2 9:24

Okay, but what does that actually look like?

Speaker 1 9:26

Well, he suggests things like mindfulness, meditation, breathing exercises and even music therapy.

Speaker 2 9:32

Music therapy. Yeah, like just listening to calming music.

Speaker 1 9:35

It's actually a bit more targeted than that, really, yeah, there are these curated playlists on platforms like Spotify.

Speaker 2 9:41

Okay.

Speaker 1 9:41

And they're specifically designed for people going through IVF. They use music and psychological techniques to promote relaxation, reduce anxiety and just generally improve emotional well-being.

Speaker 2 9:53

So it's not just about listening to whatever chills you out.

Speaker 1 9:56

Right, it's more structured and intentional.

Speaker 2 9:58

Like a therapeutic approach to music.

Speaker 1 10:00

Exactly, and it's amazing how powerful music can be you know, oh, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 10:07

It can completely shift your mood Makes sense that it could play a role in managing the emotional ups and downs of IVF.

Speaker 1 10:13

Definitely Okay. What about the breathing exercises? Have you ever tried those?

Speaker 2 10:17

I've heard of them for stress, but I always thought, like how much can breathing really help?

Speaker 1 10:22

I know it seems so simple, right, but there's actually a lot of science behind it. Oh really yeah. So when we're stressed, our breathing gets all shallow and rapid which actually just makes the stress worse.

Speaker 2 10:33

Interesting.

Speaker 1 10:34

But focused breathing techniques. They can help slow down your heart rate, calm your nervous system and just bring a sense of calm.

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So it's about consciously changing how you breathe to break that stress cycle.

Speaker 1 10:47

Exactly, and the best part is you can do it anywhere, anytime.

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No special equipment or anything.

Speaker 1 10:52

Nope, just you and your breath.

Speaker 2 10:53

I like that, especially since IVF involves so much waiting and uncertainty.

Speaker 1 10:58

Right. All that waiting can really fuel anxiety.

Speaker 2 11:01

Exactly so, finding those little moments to just breathe.

Speaker 1 11:04

It can make a world of difference.

Speaker 2 11:06

Okay, I'm sold on breathing exercises. But what about mindfulness meditation? I've tried that before.

Speaker 1 11:13

It's not for everyone.

Speaker 2 11:14

I could not quiet my mind.

Speaker 1 11:15

It takes practice. The goal isn't to have zero thoughts.

Speaker 2 11:19

Okay, good, because that seems impossible.

Speaker 1 11:22

It's more about shifting from reacting to your thoughts and feelings to just observing them.

Speaker 2 11:28

Without judgment. Easier said than done.

Speaker 1 11:30

It is, but with practice it can be really helpful, especially in a situation like IVF where so much feels out of your control.

Speaker 2 11:37

That makes sense when you're constantly worrying about outcomes.

Speaker 1 11:40

Right.

Speaker 2 11:41

Focusing on the present moment. Even if it's just for a few minutes, it can be grounding.

Speaker 1 11:45

It's a way of saying, okay, I can't control what's going to happen.

Speaker 2 11:48

But I can control how I respond to this moment.

Speaker 1 11:51

Yes, and it's also about recognizing that not every thought you have is true.

Speaker 2 11:55

That's good. Thoughts are just thoughts. They're not facts.

Speaker 1 11:58

Exactly.

Speaker 2 11:59

So don't believe everything you think.

Speaker 1 12:01

Words to live by. You know. This all reminds me of that saying.

Speaker 2 12:05

Which one?

Speaker 1 12:06

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Speaker 2 12:14

That's perfect and it really aligns with Dr Pat's advice.

Speaker 1 12:18

He's all about empowering his patients to focus on what they can control.

Speaker 2 12:22

Their mindset, their self-care practices, their communication with their partner.

Speaker 1 12:27

It's a powerful message because sometimes it feels like everything is spiraling.

Speaker 2 12:31

Oh, I knew that feeling and you just want to give up. Yeah, but that's why Dr Pat is so adamant about seeking support.

Speaker 1 12:38

Don't be afraid to call for help.

Speaker 2 12:39

Therapists, counselors, support groups. They're there for you.

Speaker 1 12:42

It's a good reminder you don't have to go through this alone.

Speaker 2 12:46

And it's not a sign of weakness to seek help.

Speaker 1 12:48

It's actually a sign of strength.

Speaker 2 12:49

Because you're prioritizing your well-being.

Speaker 1 12:51

Which is crucial during a process as challenging as IVF.

Speaker 2 12:55

Absolutely, and Dr Pat, he really emphasizes that IVF is not just a medical journey.

Speaker 1 13:01

It's emotional and psychological too, exactly, and speaking of the emotional side of things, dr Pat has some really insightful advice about relationship.

Speaker 2 13:10

Oh yeah, that's so important Because IVF can put a lot of strain on a relationship.

Speaker 1 13:15

It can. It's easy to get caught up in the logistics of it all.

Speaker 2 13:18

The appointments, the procedures, the medications.

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And lose sight of the connection with your partner.

Speaker 2 13:24

It's like the IVF process itself becomes the third person in the relationship.

Speaker 1 13:28

Yeah, it can feel that way.

Speaker 2 13:29

So how do you prevent that?

Speaker 1 13:30

Well, Dr Pat, he's all about carving out time for each other.

Speaker 2 13:33

Like date nights.

Speaker 1 13:34

Yeah, kind of, but it doesn't have to be fancy.

Speaker 2 13:37

Okay.

Speaker 1 13:38

He suggests doing things that bring you joy and help you reconnect as a couple.

Speaker 2 13:43

Like those activities we talked about earlier.

Speaker 1 13:44

Exactly Going for walks, cooking together, watching a movie.

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Simple things.

Speaker 1 13:49

But powerful. It's about remembering that you're in this together.

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And that your relationship is a source of strength.

Speaker 1 13:56

He also reminds couples to be patient with each other.

Speaker 2 13:58

Oh, that's so important, because everyone copes differently.

Speaker 1 14:01

Right. Well, one person finds helpful, another might find annoying.

Speaker 2 14:04

So it's about communication and understanding each other's needs.

Speaker 1 14:07

And finding ways to support each other that feel authentic.

Speaker 2 14:11

And speaking of challenges, one of the toughest things about IVF has got to be Knowing when to stop treatment. Yeah, that's a big one. It's like this constant balance between hope and the need to make tough decisions.

Speaker 1 14:25

And it can be a really difficult conversation for couples to have.

Speaker 2 14:28

Especially if one person's ready to stop and the other isn't.

Speaker 1 14:31

Definitely that's where open and honest communication is so crucial.

Speaker 2 14:36

Listening to each other's perspectives, acknowledging the grief and disappointment.

Speaker 1 14:39

And ultimately finding a way forward together.

Speaker 2 14:42

So how do you even begin to navigate that?

Speaker 1 14:45

Well, dr Pat, he offers some guidance. Okay, he stresses the importance of having realistic expectations.

Speaker 2 14:52

Okay.

Speaker 1 14:52

Understanding the toll that continued treatment can take, both emotionally and financially.

Speaker 2 14:57

Right.

Speaker 1 14:57

And being mindful of the impact on your relationship.

Speaker 2 14:59

It's a lot to consider.

Speaker 1 15:00

It is, and he also encourages couples to lean on their support systems during this time.

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Therapists, counselors, support groups.

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Anyone who can offer a listening ear and a shoulder to cry on.

Speaker 2 15:12

It's a reminder that you don't have to go through this alone.

Speaker 1 15:15

And that even if you decide to stop IVF treatment.

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You're not giving up on your dream of a family.

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You're simply choosing a different path.

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A path that might lead to unexpected joys and fulfillment.

Speaker 1 15:25

And you know, there are so many ways to create a family.

Speaker 2 15:28

IVF is just one option.

Speaker 1 15:30

And it's not the right path for everyone.

Speaker 2 15:32

Well said.

Speaker 1 15:35

We've covered so much ground in this deep dive we have from the emotional roller coaster of IVF.

Speaker 2 15:38

To the importance of self-care.

Speaker 1 15:40

The need for open communication and strong support systems.

Speaker 2 15:44

And the tough decisions couples face along the way.

Speaker 1 15:46

But there's one more piece of Dr Pat's advice that I think is really important to highlight.

Speaker 2 15:51

Okay, I'm all ears.

Speaker 1 15:52

He talks about finding moments of joy and lightness throughout the IVF journey.

Speaker 2 15:56

Don't let IVF consume your entire life.

Speaker 1 15:58

Exactly Make time for things that bring you joy, things that make you laugh, things that remind you of who you are outside of this process.

Speaker 2 16:05

That's such a beautiful reminder. It's easy to forget about those things when you're in the thick of it.

Speaker 1 16:10

It is but those moments of joy, those shared experiences, they can be a source of strength and resilience.

Speaker 2 16:16

They remind you that there's more to life than just treatment cycles and doctor's appointments.

Speaker 1 16:20

Exactly so. As we move into the final part of our deep dive, I think it's important to reflect on that message.

Speaker 2 16:27

What brings you joy, what makes you laugh, what are those things that nourish your soul?

Speaker 1 16:32

Those are great questions to ponder, and in the next part we'll explore how Dr Pat encourages couples to incorporate those elements of joy and connection into their lives, even amidst the challenges of IVF.

Speaker 2 16:46

It's like he's saying don't forget to live.

Speaker 1 16:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2 16:49

Even while you're going through all of this.

Speaker 1 16:51

It's so easy to get consumed by the process.

Speaker 2 16:54

Right, it's all consuming.

Speaker 1 16:55

And it's not just about you as an individual either, Dr Pat. He really emphasizes the importance of doing things together as a couple.

Speaker 2 17:03

Like having fun together.

Speaker 1 17:04

Yeah, like making a list of things you both enjoy doing. Date night ideas Kind of. But it's more than just date nights. It's about weaving those moments of joy into your everyday life.

Speaker 2 17:14

Give me some examples. What kind of things are we talking about?

Speaker 1 17:16

Oh, simple stuff Going for walks in nature, watching a funny movie, trying a new recipe.

Speaker 2 17:24

I like it.

Speaker 1 17:24

Listening to music or even just having a good conversation.

Speaker 2 17:27

Those are all good ideas.

Speaker 1 17:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2 17:29

But how do you actually make time for that stuff when you're feeling so overwhelmed?

Speaker 1 17:33

That's the key, isn't it? It's about being intentional.

Speaker 2 17:37

Intentional about joy.

Speaker 1 17:38

Exactly when you're exhausted and stressed. It's so easy to let those things slide.

Speaker 2 17:43

You're in survival mode.

Speaker 1 17:44

Yeah, but Dr Pat, he's reminding us that self-care isn't a luxury.

Speaker 2 17:48

It's essential.

Speaker 1 17:49

Exactly, and you know what else he says.

Speaker 2 17:52

Tell me.

Speaker 1 17:52

Don't underestimate the power of a good laugh.

Speaker 2 17:54

Oh, I totally agree with that one.

Speaker 1 17:56

Laughter is the best medicine sometimes.

Speaker 2 17:58

It really is. It's like a mental reset button.

Speaker 1 18:00

And when you're laughing together, it strengthens your bond as a couple.

Speaker 2 18:04

Which is so important during this whole process.

Speaker 1 18:06

It is. You know, throughout this deep dive, I've been struck by how much Dr Pat emphasizes the emotional and psychological aspects of IVF.

Speaker 2 18:16

Right, it's not just about the physical stuff.

Speaker 1 18:18

It's about the whole person, the mind, the body, the spirit.

Speaker 2 18:22

And I think that's a really important message for anyone going through IVF.

Speaker 1 18:24

It's about the whole person, the mind, the body, the spirit, and I think that's a really important message for anyone going through IVF.

Speaker 2 18:28

It's a holistic journey, yeah, and it's a reminder that it's okay to ask for help, absolutely.

Speaker 1 18:31

There's no shame in seeking support.

Speaker 2 18:33

Therapists, counselors, support groups, friends, family.

Speaker 1 18:37

Anyone who can offer a listening ear and a shoulder to cry on.

Speaker 2 18:40

And remember, you're not alone in this.

Speaker 1 18:42

That's so important to remember.

Speaker 2 18:44

Infertility is more common than you might think.

Speaker 1 18:47

Way more common.

Speaker 2 18:48

Remember that statistic from the Bangkok article 17% of couples. It just shows you how many people are out there facing similar challenges.

Speaker 1 18:54

And how important it is to break down the stigma.

Speaker 2 18:57

So people can talk about it openly and seek support without shame.

Speaker 1 19:01

Exactly. Dr Pad's work in Bangkok is a great example of that.

Speaker 2 19:03

He's really putting himself out there, sharing his knowledge and experience.

Speaker 1 19:06

Making a difference in people's lives.

Speaker 2 19:08

And that's really what this deep dive has been all about.

Speaker 1 19:11

Providing information, resources and, hopefully, a sense of hope.

Speaker 2 19:15

Because going through IVF can feel really isolating and overwhelming.

Speaker 1 19:18

It can, but you're not alone.

Speaker 2 19:20

There's support available, there are strategies that can help and there's always hope.

Speaker 1 19:24

Always, and remember Dr Pat's final piece of advice.

Speaker 2 19:28

Okay, what is it?

Speaker 1 19:29

Find those things that bring you joy.

Speaker 2 19:32

Hold on to them.

Speaker 1 19:33

Let them be your anchor, let them guide you towards a brighter future.

Speaker 2 19:38

Beautifully said.

Speaker 1 19:39

Oh.

Speaker 2 19:40

Well, I think that's a perfect place to wrap up this deep dive. We've covered a lot of ground today.

Speaker 1 19:44

We have.

Speaker 2 19:45

But the conversation doesn't have to end here. Keep learning, keep exploring and keep reaching out for support when you need it. Thanks for joining us on this deep dive.

Speaker 1 19:54

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 19:55

Leading Innovation. Fertility no-transcript.